ratcreature | does fandom make you like some characters more?

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sga

does fandom make you like some characters more?

I've been curious how common it is that fandom makes us come to like characters we initially didn't really care for just based on the source.

I don't become involved in a fandom, and in particular with reading fanfic, before I have seen or read a lot of the source (usually all that is available for book and tv series, though comics canon is usually too vast for that). Mostly because I want to form my own impressions first, and only then I start looking for fanfic and discussions, though noticing that a fandom is popular on my f-list and among authors I like will certainly make me more likely to check it out. And quite often there's characters I don't like much initially, but fandom changes my mind, though my favorite character usually doesn't shift. I think it's because I know that I'm influenced fairly easily that it's important to me to at least start from the source on my own.

A good example for what I mean is Draco in HP. After reading the first five books I didn't care for Draco at all, that is I didn't just find him obnoxious but also rather uninteresting. In HBP Draco seemed less flat to me (and I don't think that was all because when reading HBP I've already been in HP fandom for some time), but it was mostly through contact with tons of Draco fans and fanfic that I started to see potential in Draco, though he still isn't one of my favorites. In a similar vein fandom made me actually like Snape, which I really didn't in the books, though unlike Draco I at least never found him boring. But after copious exposure to Snape fans he's actually become my second favorite character, unlikely as that seems. I certainly wouldn't have thought that possible after just the books. (I still haven't seen the HP movies, so apart from seeing some screencaps, those don't factor into my view of HP at all.)

Another example is Rodney McKay in SGA. I mean, during my marathon watching of SGA season one Rodney already slowly grew on me on his own merits, and I found him less aggravating as time went on, so it wasn't all fandom, but it wasn't until I got involved in SGA fandom, of which a huge percentage seems to have a massive crush on Rodney, that I started to really like the character.

So do you have any examples of fandom making you turn around in your views of a character and like someone whom you didn't care for in the source?

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I don't think that fandom and fanfic really affect how much I like particular characters, unless they're relatively blank slates like Draco.

But it's difficult for me to say, since the fandoms I end up most invested in always seem to be the ones that I've read at least a fic or two before seeing any of the source.

I think I would have loved Rodney regardless, to me he seems like just the sort of person I like to hang out with in RL, but at least some of my perception of him has to be based on shalott's "A Beautiful Lifetime Event".

Yeah, I agree that it is easier for me to be influenced by fanfic for secondary characters for whom there's more maneuvering room, though fanfic can't really make me care for truly minor characters that barely get more than a few lines if that and are actually blank slates. I mean, I never understood how there's whole sections of HP fandom into Blaise Zabini or Theodore Nott, who actually seem invested in those characters. Occasionally a great story can make me care about a minor character just like it can make me become interested in an OC, but that doesn't extend beyond the particular story.

I normally come into fandoms backwards, starting with fic and meta I find on my friends list, and then checking out the source if the fic and meta are interesting enough. However, I do worry about canon breaking my love of certain characters; I think that's the backward-fangirl's example of what you're talking about.

So does that actually happen? That you don't like a character as much anymore, not even in fanfic?

I mean, in my case it works so that fanfic gives a character more depth or provides a different perspective or is just more sympathetic to him, so I grow to like him and that then influences my view of canon, but if you already like a character based on a fanfic interpretation, how would you come to dislike a character?

Because while fanfic can make me like characters more it has a much harder time to make me dislike a character. I mean, sometimes it makes me reevaluate certain actions and see a character more critically, but if I dislike a fanfic interpretation of a character I like I will usually either dislike the fanfic, or if it's a secondary character and I like the rest I sometimes just ignore it (for example in a Harry/Draco fic I can live with Ron or Dumbledore characterizations I dislike as long as those aren't central). But I can see how in reverse the actual canon might hold more weight, even if you came to like the fandom through fanfic.

I have to admit I never quite understood this backward thing. It seemingly happened that way a lot in TS, to the extent that many fans didn't seem to like the actual series that much compared to the fanfic for it. And I have to admit I found it kind of aggravating to have a whole section of fandom who argued that fanfic was superior and that they actually even liked things I saw as mischaracterization better than the series, whereas to me it was obvious that as a TS fan I liked the series in itself. After almost a decade in fandom I'm more mellow about the whole thing, and get that there are different approaches, but as a newbie fan in a very fanfic-focused fandom like TS I felt like ranting a lot (not least because it's kind of annoying to see the series you love dissed even its own fandom). *g*

I have had it happen. In Real Ghostbusters fandom, the accepted fanon characterization for Peter Venkman is VASTLY more intriguing than what was in the actual show (I cut it no slack for being a cartoon), and when I watch the actual episodes I sometimes wonder where fandom got the good crack.

I'm honestly a little afraid to finally see Firefly, though that doesn't keep me from having it in my NetFlix queue.

Heh, with Firefly I'm kind of the reverse. I watched the series and liked it quite a lot, but read very little fanfic, only the occasional piece cropping up on my f-list. So I can't reassure you they are close. Part of why I never tried getting into Firefly fanfic is that half the time when I see Firefly fanfic recced somewhere it seems to be River/Simon incest or other pairings for which I don't care at all, rather than say Mal-centric gen fic.

I've actually found that I resist reading Harry/Draco (or Draco/anyone) in part because I found him so repulsive (Hitler-Youth bully--yes, very attractive) in the novels that I don't want him recuperated by fanfic (and I even find myself a bit skeezed out by the sheer number of people who found him a turn-on enough to want to try). So yeah, I guess that fanfic does have that power.

I can understand that problem wrt Draco. Personally I can only see (consensual) Harry/Draco if Draco changes, and though I have no problem with pairing Unredeemed!Draco with others who wouldn't be repulsed by his racism or with dystopian non-con scenarios or whatever, I am not that interested in pairings without Harry, and dystopias are rarely my thing. My own squicks really start to kick in when an author starts trying to redeem that blood purity ideology instead of redeeming Draco, because that's a line I really don't care to cross.

So did fanfic change your mind about a character in other series when you weren't actively repulsed and avoided exposure?

For potential fans of Firefly ("the show whose fans other fans are afraid of"): the daily LJ newsletter the_cortex identifies stories by character or pairing and rating, so you can easily find gen stories and avoid pairings that squick you.

I have to confess that whenever I really dislike a character who is popular (like Jayne in Firefly or Blake in Blakes7, although he's not as popular as you'd expect a title character to be) I get comments like "For someone who doesn't like X you do a good job writing him" which could mean that I'm a) so devoted to fairness and objectivity or b) an attention whore who leans over past backwards and into a backflip.

Personally I can't stand when character dislike obviously bleeds through in fanfic, even if I don't care much for the character one way or another myself. I think it's because I character bashing is one of my pet peeves, and personally I'm not likely to hate any character from a source I like, I tend to be indifferent at most.

Yep. I wanted to slap canon!Zekk in the Star Wars books, but grudgingly read a fanfic that had him in it, and it wasn't bad. Read another, and so on and so forth, and now I like him okay. He was also less annoying in the latest book that was published, but that's not really relevant - unless it's just my perception that's changed.

Yeah, I wonder about that too, whether I like some characters better in later installments just because they've grown on me through fanfic, and I now look for complexities and stuff, or whether it is the source.

Yes! In X-Men, I've found writing fanfic and participating in fandom have made me much more fond of both Scott and Jean than I was from the movie. And judging by the readers who write to me, that's often true of Scott and less so of Jean.

Hee, I have gotten a lot of "Wow, you make Scott interesting" comments on Xmen fic -- I started out fond of both of them and have grown fonder through canon. There are definitely characters, though, that I appreciate more from getting to know writers who write them well, or have a different perspective on them -- most notably in Angel, my primary fandom, where I never cared for Connor or Fred much until I saw them well written.

I'd also be interested in the flipside of the question, whether there are characters that fandom makes you like less. (Spike from BtVS seems to be a pretty common example of this phenomenon).

I don't think I can recall any instance where I have liked a character less because of how they are in fanfic, though I might not become that involved in a fandom if a character I like it widely disliked or from my view misrepresented. But then I have few characters I actively dislike, usually I'm indifferent at most.

*nods*

I already liked Scott in the movie, but my view of him has benefitted as well from the larger room fanfic provides for him.

I've found that it's hard to write a character without ending up liking them. I've never had this happen with a character I actually HATED, but it's definitely happened with characters I was somewhat indifferent to before I needed them in a fic for something.

To use an example from Sandman, I never used to like Destiny, I thought he was boring. Then he kept creeping into my

1character sentences for Death. Slowly I started realizing that their relationship was kinda cute, and maybe he wasn't so dull after all. :p

Oh yes, I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, I guess it makes sense for it to be even more intense for writers, when you have to put yourself inside a character. I just read fanfic though.

I figure that it's because most characters like themselves, so when you see them through their own eyes, it's hard to not like them. Or, in the case of my example, I was writing from the point of view of someone who liked the character I found boring, so I started to see things I hadn't before.

I completely agree with you about Draco. After I read so many Draco fics I almost forgot that I never really cared for him in the books. Actually I feel the same about Snape too. But unlike Draco, I'm more invested in Snape's fate in the final book now, which I never would have really cared about had I not read so many fics about him after HBP.

Fandom also has made me dislike some characters more as well. It depends on the fics you read, who is the main character I suppose.

Somehow if a fic represents a character less favorable than I view him I dislike the fic, like I see it as OOC or just not my thing and don't read or if the character in question is just minor in that fic and I really like the rest I ignore that part. OTOH if it makes me more sympathetic towards the character it has to be more extreme before I think it's OOC, though certainly that happens too.

Well, yes. Canon Terrorsaur 'meh', Waywardfic Terrorsaur 'yay' (to name one example).

Heh, I don't even have any idea what fandom that is...

That would be Beast Wars ('Beasties' for the Canadians).

Ummm... actually, no, entirely the other way around. Characters which I have liked or at least been neutral towards have become objects of loathing due to fans.

Wow that must suck! I mean, fandom as an enjoyment risk factor. Could you give examples? Or explain how that works? I can't quite imagine what in fandom could make me dislike a character I liked, it's not like I'd seek out fic (or even meta) that portrays characters in ways that rub me the wrong way, I dislike the fic instead, not my beloved character. I guess the other way around works for me because it is always fun to have more characters and pairings to like and read about, so it's not that hard a sell.

Hmmm. There are a couple -- just trying to think here.

I suppose the most obvious is Catherine Willows from CSI. Her fans, on various lists I was on, were so obnoxious and wrote here as such a perfect Mary Sue that -- even now, I can't really watch her. And I did like her on the show to start with. I admit that the portrayal and the writing of season 4 helped my distaste, but even now, seeing her on the show, my mind kicks in with the memory of some of those fanfics and those comments and -- I have to go and bleach my brain a little while.

Well, the Sentinel -- if I go back and watch the show, I'm cured. But I hate humorless brawn-no-brains Jim and angsting elfin Blair with the fiery hate of a thousand obsolete fandoms.

(Here from metafandom)

If I dislike a character, and then they're widely beloved in fandom (or have a large, loud contingent of fans), I pretty commonly end up disliking the character more in reaction. Spike is an obvious example, or Rodney; the snarky character who I experience as kind of a dick (or, in the case of Spike, kind of a mass murderer) who I wouldn't want to be around, but who lots of people like. It's... it's, I don't know, listening to people talking all the time about how great/funny/sweet/whatever a character is, when I disagree, tends to harden my position rather than allowing me to see the great/funny/sweet/whatever aspects of that character. If I really force myself to look at them objectively I can see some of those things, but my emotional response to the fandom tends to be OH MY GOD STOP LOVING THE ASSHOLE!

And I can come around to that kind of character if I'm not tied into the fandom--Logan in VM fits the profile, for instance, but I think he's great, because I experience him free of the mass of fannish reaction.

Huh, I think I'm kind of glad that my reactions don't work like that, and that I usually end up liking more characters through fandom. I get where you are coming from, my reaction to a section of devoted Lucius Malfoy fans is like that. I appreciate him as a minor character and villain, but to make him the hero of a story or to fetishize him in certain ways rubs me the wrong way. It is rare that an author can make me sympathetic to him, and I don't really want to be either, so I'm not looking for fic to accomplish that.

I guess part of why I just end up liking characters more is that I really avoid anything that might harsh my squee. For example while Carson in SGA isn't my favorite character I don't get why some hate him so much, so I just skip that section of fic and especially meta (of which I don't read a lot anyway).

For example while Carson in SGA isn't my favorite character I don't get why some hate him so much, so I just skip that section of fic and especially meta (of which I don't read a lot anyway).

Very wise.

Yes, though really Draco is the only one I can think of. I still don't particularly like him, but after reading some essays, I saw interesting possibilities re: writing him.

I don't have good "slash goggles" and especially don't tend to interpret hatred/enmity as slashiness, but reading essays about Draco that pointed out certain things made me see how he was obsessed with Harry, and that's interesting to me to write about.

Yeah, I'm much more inclined to see buddy than enemy slash, so I started with HP slash by mostly reading Harry/Ron, but there's really not that much of it compared to Harry/Draco and Harry/Snape, so I ventred into those pairing and let myself be convinced.

I agree with one of the earlier comments about how fandom made me like characters that are blank slates - mainly Blaise and also Draco in a more than pathetically 2D bully form that Rowling wrote him in until HBP. With characters like Snape, I was already far gone as a fangirl simply because of the mystery surrounding him. Of course, having Alan Rickman play didn't do that any favours. :)

I loved McKay because of the snark. So totally adored him. But SGA characters that I've grown to love more due to fandom have been Lorne (who has had about a 10 second role total in SGA so far, all seasons added up) and probably Zelenka, who I loved but not as much as I do now after having read fic about him.

See, I rarely get interested in characters that are totally blank slates like Blaise, because fanfic depictions can be completely disparate and unlike with minor characters that play some sort of role at least, there's no reference point whatsoever for you to decide what's OOC, so I don't end up with a sense of one fleshed out character from fanfic at all. For me there needs to be something there to begin with to build on to grow to like a character, like with Zelenka.

Here via metafandom.

Fandom can certainly boost my enthusiasm about a TV show or a character, but I can't recall an instance where my friendslist made me totally change my opinion about a show or character.

For me it's not that I go from hating a character to him turning into a favorite, but from not caring that much about him, or just appreciating him in his function for the plot or in relation to some other character I like, to liking a character for himself.

I see what you mean and I don't think that has happened to me either. My friends made me love a character with their enthusiasm even more, but never with a character I didn't like or didn't care about.

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does fandom make you like some characters more?

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