wondering about Vulcan art and design

[ratcreature]

To entice myself to tackle the background of my trekreversebang piece, I've been looking at Vulcan screencaps: to try to get a handle on Vulcan art and design in general, to help me draw background and decorations. I'm trying to decide what styles Vulcan stuff resembles, and on Enterprise in particular it seems somewhat Art Deco inspired, like if you look at this screencap of Vulcan buildings. Similar vistas in Reboot movie are less clear in that direction, but I can't place them otherwise either (I'm not really good at recognizing art styles).

I also looked at the other movies, but the Vulcan design there seems very stark, with not much in the way of decoration, except for the clothing with their robes and hats and such. Some of those seem kind of Asian-influenced maybe? But I couldn't say whether they resemble anything in particular, as I'm rather clueless about Asian art and design. TOS the series itself with the special effects of tv design being what they were at the time is not all that inspiring. I mean, in Amok Time we see that stone henge like circle with that elongated hexagonal gong, and T'Pau sitting on a chair (I can only assume that it seemingly being made of wood on a planet that does not have much in the way of trees makes it so special, otherwise it is rather sucky as far as impressive thrones go).

Back to the newer designs, in both the Reboot movie and in Enterprise we see quite a number of monumental statues (kind of like that giant Jesus statue in Rio, which I think is art deco too). Is there any canon that gives an explanation as to why they love monumental statues, or whom these are depicting? I'd assume at least some may be Surak, especially the ones from Enterprise that seem to stand around serenely, but there are also some with weapons and in the Reboot movie in their underground chamber some of them seem to carry weapons too, so I guess they are older pre-Reform? Or maybe a reminder not to forget the past. Are there any common interpretations? I mean, usually gigantic statues are around for a reason besides being decorative. And do you think they would put up some with weapons again when they are settling on their new planet, or would they stick with peaceful ones when they rebuild?

Anyway, overall there doesn't seem to be a single Vulcan style, which I guess makes sense as there isn't a single Human style either, and the examples are from different time periods too. Do you like any particular design choices for Vulcan better? Or find them more sensible than others? Any insights?

Then a few days ago I asked on a canon questions comm about the Vulcan scripts, but it seems we really don't have any info what the few samples we see mean. Also nobody seemed to know of any Vulcan symbols besides the IDIC one.

Comments

[shadowvalkyrie]

I like the stark, minimalistic, practical design for 23rd ct Vulcans -- it seems to fit their philosophy. And while Spock does stress upon occasion that the appreciation of beauty is not against the principles of logic, it makes sense (to my mind) that all the really beautiful pieces of art they admire and keep around would be pre-Surakian antiques (like the statue of the fire deity in Spock's room, though "beautiful" is a matter of taste there), because I have trouble believing art can be created without emotion. I also like the idea of decorative weapons. Overtly, a reminder to themselves of a past they don't want repeated, but also, I think, though more secretly, an outlet (or sort of focussing object?) for the part of their souls they normally repress, or maybe a clue for those around them that logic calm isn't all there is to Vulcans. ";-]

[ratcreature]

I don't think I actually remember that statue. When do we see it?

And I can buy that they go for minimalist, utilitarian design rather than ornamentation (like the Vulcan Bauhaus, heh) but they really don't go for that in their ceremonial clothes. So that is quite the contrast in that period.

Comments on LJ raised the possibility that the statues might tie into their version of ancestor worship with the katras and such. Also that the weapons could have taken on symbolic meanings (like in slaying of ignorance and such).

[shadowvalkyrie]

I don't think I actually remember that statue. When do we see it?

Err... Which episodes do we see Spock's quarters in? Amok Time, I think, then the one with the Obelisk, but there have to be more? Depending on the angle it has to show up in one of them, because I remember it quite clearly. (Hideous thing, but it was explained as an old statue of a fire deity in one of the novelisations, and I liked that.) Sorry, I really can't say for certain where to find it!

Vulcan Bauhaus

*snickerfit*

Comments on LJ raised the possibility that the statues might tie into their version of ancestor worship with the katras and such. Also that the weapons could have taken on symbolic meanings (like in slaying of ignorance and such).

Cool theories that!

[ratcreature]

Is it this one?
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x01/amoktime0048.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x01/amoktime0121.jpg

It looks like some kind of animal statue? And I agree that I wouldn't put that in my living space...

[shadowvalkyrie]

I can't access the pages...

[ratcreature]

arg, it is one of those referrer problems I expect, that you get access denied when clicking on the link from elsewhere. you could try to c&p the URL or go the Amok Time gallery here:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=56&page=2

I've linked to the page where the first one is as thumbnail.

[shadowvalkyrie]

That should be it. Well, at least it's not art deco?

Cool page, btw, never saw it before! Screencaps, yay!

[ratcreature]

Yeah the site is pretty awesome. They seem to have screencaps of everything. And well organized too.

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

It's not Chinese-influenced design (which rules out much of Asia) - there's too many even numbers of steps, pillars etc. I think the hat on the man at the bottom right of your linked picture has a hat that I think is referencing Song Dynasty hats? (Ming Dynasty maybe?) In Amok Time, it looked to me like they were using very ancient things rather than elaborate, which makes sense for that particular ritual, I think!

The giant statues that I've seen personally have all been Buddha, but there's so much variation just there. Even Buddha sometimes has a sword, though it's said to be to banish ignorance rather than be used as a weapon, but I don't know how much of that is later interpretation!

[ratcreature]

I didn't know that even/odd numbers of building elements were somehow significant. The only bit of Chinese numerology I've heard of was that eight is somehow thought of as lucky. But yeah, I meant more the costumes, like this guy.

You make a good point that the weapons could have symbolic meaning for them by now. They certainly still keep them around for their guards to carry in ceremonies, pacifist or not. Then the new ones might have weapons too.

And the stone circle in Amok Time definitely seemed to be meant as very old. I suppose originally beside a marriage-fight place that could have some astronomy function for calendars, like many such big ancient structures with the upright stones and such, maybe to determine the time for pon farr cycles?

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

Yeah, a astronomical function is a great idea, and one not easily replicated on another planet with different stars.

Personally, I can't see the Vulcans rebuilding things wholesale unless there is some specific function, even if that function is ceremonial. I think they would concentrate on the small things, like appropriate clothing for ceremonies, first. Giant statues will be last on the list, if on the list at all (though I bet there'll be one cranky archaeologist who was off on another planet at the time who says they MUST recreate the statues; another similar type of scholar who says they MUST NOT and so on...)

[ratcreature]

Yeah, I think if they weren't good for something in the present, they would have a hard time justifying rebuilding them, because just wanting their new places replicate the before in itself would, I guess, be seen as an emotional reaction. OTOH as jacquez points out below, if these were somehow related to their version of ancestor worship with the katras of the dead and such, they might be rebuild. Though the katric ark of Surak we've seen on Enterprise was smaller vessel, but it could be that different things are involved.

[medie]

Well, that picture from the movie is Mount Seleya, so it's essentially an ancient temple. From the time of Surak or before. Same goes for Spock's ancestral grounds. They've been in the Clan since wayyyyy before Surak, so very much a tribal stronghold feeling going on. Most of the statues in Enterprise vibe to me as being Pre-Reformation, which holds that 'grandiose' sensibility.
(Likewise for that chamber in the movie. It was essentially an ancient graveyard or tomb -- )

It seems like, as well, there's a Roman sensibility about some things. It gets referenced in the novels a lot as well, that Vulcan estates have a focus that's inward, rather than outward, in that there's not much in the way of external decoration and that shows up with T'Pol's home in Enterprise, though, really, that's a smaller scale than, say, Spock's personal estate or family home would be.

[ratcreature]

What I wonder is whether say for example the giant statues still have significance enough for them in the present that they would recreate them just as they were (or in similar ways) in their new ceremonial spaces, or whether they just kept them around because they were there, but wouldn't bother to make them again.

[jacquez.livejournal.com]

I think it could go either way.

We don't know who the statues are of, or why they were made originally, or what function they serve for modern Vulcans.

Are they old Masters who katras were lost to the winds? If so, I would bet on recreation (and possibly additional symbolic statues of all those on the winds of space, lost with Vulcan).

Were they built by slave labor in the likenesses of ancient gods? Maybe you don't bother to rebuild those, so much.

[ratcreature]

Yeah, it seems with our sketchy knowledge of Vulcan a case for several scenarios could be made. I just wasn't sure that it hadn't come up on Enterprise what they were and I had just not remembered or maybe missed that ep, as iirc I didn't watch all episodes, especially later on.