ratcreature | a knitting vocabulary question

With the basic stitches, what is "rechts verschränkt" called in English? I know that "rechts" is "knit" and "links" is "purl" in knitting terminology, but how do you name that other difference, i.e. whether you sort of twist the stitch -- a "rechts verschränkt" stitch is one where (assuming right handed knitting) you have the yarn behind the needles and insert the right needle from the right into the stitch when you knit the next, whereas a plain "rechts" is when you insert the needle from the left. "Links verschränkt" meanwhile means that the yarn is in front of the needles and you insert the right needle from the right and behind the loop of yarn on the left needle, whereas plain "links" has you insert the needle from the right too but just through the loop (without that twist). I tried looking up the symbol in English language knitting charts, but it seems the knitting symbols aren't normed internationally. In German patterns usually "rechts" is a black square whereas "rechts verschränkt" is a black diamond shape.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

*drops in from Network* ...okay, I think the difference you're getting at here is knitting through the back loop (verschränkt) versus through the front loop (plain). In written terminology this would be ktbl/ptbl. I don't use charts, so I'm useless there. And there are probably some variations on even the written form that I'm missing, but that's what I got.

Thanks! Describing yarn paths with words is somehow always confusing.

Especially when describing them in a different language, yes! That's okay, I'm in the process of learning German and having odds and ends of knitting terminology will be helpful. I seriously doubt I would've picked this up from a dictionary, so thank you right back!

Yeah, I looked in a dictionary, but nothing beyond the knit/purl terms was there. These specialized craft vocabularies always suck, because they only vaguely connect to the "normal" meaning of the words, and even in your native language you learn them only when you learn the skill, and then you want to read instructions in another language you know, but haven't learned the craft in, and it's all gibberish.

For what it's worth, the About.com guide is pretty decent - that's a table of common abbreviations there, and iirc they have decent illustrations if you dig around the site for specifics. I know there's a good set of videos that'd help more, but I don't have it bookmarked and... but my visual memory succeeds! Here they are, and I know they try to have them all in both English and continental styles. So hopefully that helps with the vocab some. Specialized translation is EVIL. Made of.

I actually had no idea that "English" and "Continental" were two different styles of knitting... (I never got much past the basics in knitting, only only knit occasionally -- I mean, I've made a few mittens, arm warmers, scarves and simple knitted stuffed animals, but never any complicated clothing items.) It never occurred to me that anyone right handed could possibly hold the yarn in their right hand too not the left. That you have to loop the yarn around the needle in the English kind looks really unnatural and complicated to me, but I guess it's all a matter of what you're used to.

In the US there used to be a BIG social difference between knitting English and knitting Continental -- Continental meant you were probably a recent immigrant or child of immigrants, probably lower SES status, etc. etc. In some areas of the US it meant you were almost definitely Italian and would let you in for allll kinds of racist nonsense. My mother-in-law is a granddaughter of Italian immigrants and when she was learning to knit as a child this was a big nasty deal (about 60 years ago).

Today in the US there's not much racism/classism surrounding it and it's mostly just what you learn/what you feel comfortable with, but Continental is still fairly rare. I've been in groups of 10+ knitters where I was the only one knitting Continental (my MIL taught me to knit, after all...)

How bizarre! I guess human can really assign status to the most random things. I just looked at a video of the English method and it looks really odd to me. I don't think I've ever seen anyone knit like that, but then aside from my mother (who was the one who taught me the basics) I only see people knitting on public transport and such every now and then, so I don't have any knitting group data. It does explain why I sometimes found English language knitting descriptions of stitches weird, when the yarn is held in another place without ever mentioning that.

I didn't know that bit of social history! ...I can almost kind of understand people building prejudices around knitting style given how frustrating it is trying to talk to someone about knitting if they knit the opposite way.

FWIW, I've never met anyone not related to my (immigrant) family who knits continental style. I haven't interacted with many knitting circles, though.

Continental knitting is also called German knitting, which might give you an idea why you probably haven't seen it done the other way. ;)

Probably! This goes a long way to explain why English language knitting stuff, when I tried to follow it, so often seemed strange to me. I guess I can't fault them for not pointing out the (to them) obvious of how the yarn is held after all in reverse it's usually not done here either. (It's still a weird way to go about knitting, though... *is biased*)

What I find weird about it is that it's slower because you have to move so much. Why intentionally do something slow when you can achieve the same results doing it fast? Unless that's the point of it? I don't know. When I knit something I usually knit it to get it done because I want to use it (or it's a gift or something), so time is always a factor.

I have no idea. Maybe it is easier on the hands because you move them more and with different motions with this yarn wrapping stuff?

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-knit-a-twist-to-the-right.html

No, that is something more complicated involving two stitches. What I mean is just a single stitch, i.e. the one of the two ways to execute a knit or a purl stitch, depending on how you insert the needle. I think the "knitting through the back loop" phrasing of the comment above is correct for the English equivalent.

I think you're knitting through the back loop of the stitch. It's called both 'knitting through the back loop' and 'twisted knit stitch' in English.

Yeah, that makes sense. Thinking about it, you do use the back part of the loop, and the result is twisted.

"Lesson: KTBL or Twisting Stitches"

http://www.sheeptoshawl.com/charity/archives/2007/02/entry_237.html

Also, http://knitwhits.wordpress.com/2006/09/28/knitting-tip-2-twisted-stitches/

Yeah see, the description in the second link made no sense to me whatsoever with this talk of (counter)clockwise wrapping. Presumably because they talk about this English knitting style. However, thankfully I do know how to knit these (in the Continental technique, which until today I had assumed to be universal), I just didn't know what they were called in English.

I havent knitted in forever, so I was crossing my fingers and hpoing iwould find what you were looking for. lol

a knitting vocabulary question

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