how to draw female comic characters (according to Wizard)...

[ratcreature]

brown_betty asked for examples "to illustrate the exactly how and why female comic characters are illustrated differently than the male." And I thought, really, what's better to illustrate these things than the books teaching the style in the first place?

A while ago I posted some scans from Wizard How To Draw series on drawing female superheroes (here and here), and I thought I'd post a bunch more from the first book of the series on "How To Draw: Heroic Anatomy".


As everything, it starts with the basics, i.e. proportions. First the male superhero


The female example is similar, but slightly different, notice how he stands firm and straight, wheras she stands with her hips cocked a little and the leg thrust forward?


Also notice in the direct torso comparison below, how the male one is ramrod straight, but she curves and leans just a little bit in the same pose?


Now onwards to the chapter "Sultry Women". It even cautions you against overposing! Yes, it's not as if Wizard wasn't aware of the problems! (Their definition and mine of which poses are already overposed might differ slightly though, heh.)





Next, Michael Turner explains "Sex Appeal". (Or what he thinks sex appeal is.) Incidentally it also illustrates the meaning of "overposed" that was brought up in the previous chapter very effectively...





Finally for compare and contrast purpuses the chapters on "Superheroic Men" and "Superheroic Women". For the male superhero it is all about more or less ridiculously enlarged muscles as we learn:





Female superheroes don't have it that easy, they need to worry about tilting their shoulder, nipple and pubic lines attractively at all times, not to mention legs, breast size, eye make-up and hair:

Comments

Honestly..

[experimentchoco.livejournal.com]

I'd expect no better from these kinds of artists. For one, I don't really think they can draw well, especially when it comes to facial expressions (but who am I to talk?). One reason this is why I don't read these kind of comics. Go ahead, call me an manga freak, I don't care. At least in SOME manga women are strong and beautiful without having to have they're spines indented or big lips. And what about the guys? Why do they have to be so ripped they can't pick their wedgies out???? Why can't they be elegant?

BECAUSE THESE GUYS ARE OBVIOUSLY HOMOPHOBIC LOSERS.


*sorry* for the dis on american comics... D=

Re: Honestly..

[siouxmoon.livejournal.com]

Well, to be fair, Manga isn't really any better. It has its own flaws, some of them massive ones.

Everyone man and women look more or less the same, body types never range from anything other then smooth looking with little detail on the bodies themselves. Everyone seems to be around the age of 14 years old and the hair styles and just looks are 80s American Hair metal bands to a horrifying extreme. Along with a same forumla is used in every manga where you have a main character, who always seems to fit "the one" category, and his cohorts in entertainment in whatever format who all seem to have more or less the amount amount of personalities and looks and attitudes and everything.

Very repetitious, which is a reason I tend to steer away from contemporary mangas. The massive eyed style of art as well gets sickeningly cute or is weird to look at over and over again along with the fact that alot oft he mangas, even serious ones always have a degree of silly qualities within them. Like two of the comical relief characters will just defy the laws of gravity for a chuckle on the reader's part to create some kind of mixed mood in the reading or some kind of break in the drama and seriousness of it all.

I find that so god damn annoying, that's what breaks alot of Anime series for me, if I see more then one gag, one electrical eye stare, one character that boucnes down a hallway from some kind of physical attack done to them, its over.

So yeah, Manga is no better when it comes down to it.(And I only defended it to be fair, at the heart of the matter this type of art style is pretty and in ways very nice, but it is proportionally wrong, especially Michael Turner's work, especially his. >.<)

Did a how to search on Google....

[opaquejade.livejournal.com]

Wow...I just realized why I never read American comic books until now. I ran from American comic books when I saw women of diversity in Manga,and even that is dying out. We need more real wo/men artists! I am studying to become one, but without accurate information on both sexes how can I achieve what I am truly wishing for? So far I have been going off of things I see,and even that is skewed because I am on a college campus and not out on the street!! :(

I do think big wo/men are attractive. If one must be sick to be a societal beauty then I don't want them to be. I'm about to cry because I love people, If I go into comics,I will be doing them for America. I probably won't be able to get many readers though. Accurate women. Logically sized men as well. Maybe it'd be better to just become a writer? :(

Re: Did a how to search on Google....

[opaquejade.livejournal.com]

Oh and thank you for posting this up. It gave me a good idea for a few things to work on/avoid!

Wow.

[zpoon.livejournal.com]

Sure is a good thing you've all read comics with Michael Turner's work in it!

If you hadn't, it would seem like you were making baseless claims!

OH WAIT.


Yeah, I agree that it's hugely stereotypical,

BUT

look at the god damn medium of art that you're examining!

MAINSTREAM COMIC BOOK ART!

If you hate something, don't look into it!

I hate punk-ey rock like Yellowcard. HATE it. It fills me with rage. What do I do about that hatred? Nothing. I especially don't go around looking for albums to listen to until I want to punch an emo kid in the throat.

But there are people that find something to love in that. I can't. But I don't go around bashing it and Ryan Key.

I go listen to Children of Bodom.

I suggest that you find your Children of Bodom and let people draw what they want, how they want.

Re: Wow.

[ratcreature]

The problem with the "then don't read it!" advice is of course that I actually like the *superhero* part of mainstream superhero comics. Which kind of surprised me, since the first two decades I collected comics I didn't bother to read any superheroes because I thought it was all crap. And it's not like they are the most common comics here. But I actually like superheroes. You know, vigilantes in bright (or dark-n-gritty) costumes fighting crime, emo teenagers with secret identities etcetc. I just don't like having sexist porn squished into it. Which is why I complain, as fans do, to make it heard that there are people out there who like the superhero part, but not so much the sexism. The two are not inseparably linked.

"Hippo" Crits....

[mulato1.livejournal.com]

First of all all you idiots that are offended probably have a pretty disgusting body. Unless you are not average at all, im sure most average individuals prefer to see great bodies as opposed to fat asses.

I am aware that all bodies do not look like this but you have to snap back to reality and remember that these are COMIC BOOKS made for KIDS....Horny TEENAGE KIDS. its aimed to the avrage low self-esteemed nerds that would like to look like the heroes an bang the super bitches that come with the turf.

Not only that those of you ranting opposing this, are most likely ranting because your fat asses have been left out but because you will never attain what is considered "Super". Do you really think it would sell if your disgusting ass was on the cover?

Don't get me wrong there are kiddie comics out there also. But for the IDEAL superhero that is the best tutorial I've ever seen. So get real. I've never seen a "REGULAR" Comic book that really sells. It's about money, business and the satisfaction of a bunch of nerds. So be it. If you wanna complain go burn your damn bras somewhere else and leave the fantasy to the nerds. Shit maybe you can give a bra instead of burning it to a nerd and they can get out the comicbook faze faster....lmao. Retards....

Re: "Hippo" Crits....

[logicfairy.livejournal.com]

Like you, I have put together a rather lengthy response. Unlike you, I have attempted to appear civil, reasonable, and meaningful, so please look upon my response with an objective eye, as I have yours. It may be hard for you to do so, but it has been hard for me to write a calm response that does not involve swearing and name-calling.

First of all all you idiots that are offended probably have a pretty disgusting body.

I have what people consider the body of a supermodel so yeah, I guess it's a pretty disgusting body.

I am aware that all bodies do not look like this but you have to snap back to reality and remember that these are COMIC BOOKS made for KIDS....Horny TEENAGE KIDS. its aimed to the avrage low self-esteemed nerds that would like to look like the heroes an bang the super bitches that come with the turf.

You should also be aware that people other than horny teenage kids like to read comics. I guess it's a sin for someone other than the target audience to enjoy comics, huh?

In addition, I'm bothered by the fact that a male superhero should be a role model while a female superhero should be, first and foremost, a sex object. DOES NOT COMPUTE.

Not only that those of you ranting opposing this, are most likely ranting because your fat asses have been left out

No, I am ranting because what these drawing guides tell us is that for men, character and power come first, while for women, it's the porn-star body. This has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with sour grapes. If I am only upset about this because my fat ass has been left out, then by all means, I shouldn't support equal rights for African-Americans, since I'm not one myself, and I shouldn't raise money for orphanages in developing countries because I'm not an orphan myself. You are operating on the idea that all motivations are selfish, and while you may function that way, the majority of the human race does not.

but because you will never attain what is considered "Super". Do you really think it would sell if your disgusting ass was on the cover?

Do you really think you would appear mature and logical if you descended to slinging insults and making gross assumptions? Should I make illogical assumptions about you and call you names, just because I disagree with you? Personally, (at the expense of appearing egotistic) I think that while I will never be able to fly or stop a train, I can be a "super" person by standing up for what I believe in and defending those who deserve to be defended, which is essentially what "super" people do.

It's about money, business and the satisfaction of a bunch of nerds. So be it. If you wanna complain go burn your damn bras somewhere else and leave the fantasy to the nerds.

You're saying comic book artists don't draw comics because, I don't know, they love drawing? Did the entire comic book industry pop out of the butt of someone who decided to humor a little group of nerds? Besides, I like my bra. By the definition of feminism, I can believe in equality for women and still wear undergarments that support my breasts, thank you very much. You're drawing several false correlations here, and if you would like me to elaborate then I will. I can support feminism while supporting my chest at the same time. Finally, fantasy is not just for nerds. Fantasy is for anyone who has the desire to slip into another world, even momentarily, and enjoy adventure that may not be possible in our setting. I do not believe that "nerds" are the only people capable of having an imagination.

....lmao. Retards....

You are by far the most mature person I have ever met on the Internet. Except not really. Please don't tell me you are part of my generation. I do not believe for a moment that someone criticizing an absurdity of the industry is automatically someone who suffers from a mental defect.

There is my response. If you have skipped everything I have just written and you descend to hurl more insults at me, I shall simply hop back onto my high horse and smile at your immaturity. Good day.

[polgarawolf.livejournal.com]

Oh. My. Gods. Excuse me - I must go be violently ill now. Later, I may be able to respond in a semi-coherent fashion to the raging sexism and hypocrisy inherent in every single bloody picture and wink-nudge-wink sidebar/header/footer comment . . .

More How To Draw Comics Tutorials Here

[artman100.livejournal.com]

The tutorials on this page are awesome.I also have a site with how to draw comics tutorials along with video and slide shows at
www.oramaz.blogspot.com and also for cartoons I have a site at
www.oramaztoons.blogspot.com If you guys enjoy comic tutorials come and give me a visit.

Re: More How To Draw Comics Tutorials Here

[ratcreature]

Could you please stop advertising your site here? Linking once, okay, but spamming sucks. If you post that link a third time I'll delete them.

[thatdamnprinny.livejournal.com]

If this is what people's reaction is to the stereotypical day at the office with comic book artists, then i'm now certain that when the subject is about spandex and how fat nerds go into fits when Marvel tried to put real clothes on superheroes, the severity of the debate will be ten-fold.

It will first open with:

"What is it with superheroes and spandex? Don't they realize that they're being fashion criminals?"

And it will end with:

"You're just saying that without realizing the amazing appeal of Galactus. Go back to reading japanese cartoons, dickwad!"

Artists like these, and the argument revolving around you people are the reasons why i have a seething bias towards western comics and its community. That is a VERY sad fact.

[ryuumajin.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, but may I say...
"The women need to look like $lut, and the men need to look like gig0l0?"

I need some flat-chested girl image, please =3=

Thanks a lot for scanning this and posting it in your LJ

[tazzdingo.livejournal.com]

Wow. Some of the stuff he is saying sounds like something from my Character and Object design teacher.. stupid scary man. 0_o

[luornu-violet.livejournal.com]

Amazing how the response from the Neanderthal brigade is always 'You're fat and jealous neener nee nee'. Drawing women in a realistic fashion doesn't always automatically mean fat. In fact sometimes realistic means skinny. As in skinny with small breasts like....real skinny women have. But then again the Neanderthals always think anyone who doesn't look like a cartoon pornstar is 'fat'. (which is to say, I've lost count of the times on the Internet when perfectly normal and not overweight at all women have been called 'fat disgusting pigs' and suchlike. And I'm like are we seeing the same person here?)

And the second argument is always 'comics are meant for horny teenage boys get over it.' As a matter of fact, traditionally comics were mostly read by children of both sexes (although there were some older fans). If you look at the lettercols of Silver Age issues of Adventure Comics and Wonder Woman, or any title you like you see as many female names as male ones. Although there aways was some cheesecake, it wasn't all there was. Unlike now. No, comics aren't necessarily just for horny teenage boys. Why on earth should one group of potential readers be alienated and excluded?

When Tommy Neanderthal says "I bet you're all fat disgusting hippos lol1!!!11!!!' he means " I bet you would reject me in real life like all the other real bitches. The comic book women are my friends. They would let me fuck them and would take it up the arse and then make my dinner unlike the real women who are bitches"

When he says 'comics are for horny teenage boys stop whining' he means-"I am so insecure that any suggestion that a demographic other than my own would partake in my hobby would mean that I would be unmanned, emasculated, the one area of dominance in which I can feel supreme-taken from me, taken from me, the manly manly penis owning manly man who has a penis and is manly. Unmanned. By the bitches. The bitches who won't fuck me. Nooooo noooo please Mommy don't take that from me too, I'll be a good boy, noooo nooo Mommy not the cupboard.......No Daddy I am manly and masculine and strong and I really have a penis.....no don't hit me again noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. "

Something like that.

[mulato1.livejournal.com]

I think i just wasted a minute of my life reading that ignorant reply to my post. Stop being fat. I have met very secure women that would agree with me. Those of you crying about how unequal this is just have too much time on your hands and need to bitch at something. Needless to say if you had men in your lives you'd be bitchin at them instead of posting here. Stop hating and f you dont like it, dont read it. Inthe end you can be as disgusted as you want....it will never change. yay for that.

[morbioid.livejournal.com]

I didn’t know comic artists actually thought that way. Maybe I’ve just been encountering the wrong comics, but it’s seemed to me that in the last fifteen years, anger was the default sexy expression for female characters.

I’m not sure whether this article was as sexist as it seems at face value. Obviously, there’s a double standard there; men are drawn to look strong and women are drawn to look sexy. But that’s because there’s a double standard in real life, too. Men and women aren’t the same. There would be a lot less pain in the world if they were the same, but they’re not. They’re built differently. They move differently. They talk differently. They think differently. They learn different behaviours for attracting (or attempting to attract) members of the desired sex. It makes life difficult for those of us who are unable to live up to any desired attributes of either sex.

Maybe I’m over-complicating it. There’s nothing stopping artists from drawing sexy, sulty, pouty men, and there’s nothing stopping artists from drawing strong, stoic, serious women. And there’d be an audience for both. What is morally right is not necessarily what will appeal to the largest majority, though. What if it turned out that normal, mainstream, heretosexual, vanilla-lifestyle women would read more comics if they were written like soap operas and all the men looked like Fabio? It would be sexist to presume that that’s what women want, and that because they’re women and, you know, only interested relationships and emotions ’n’ stuff, they wouldn’t read something like Watchmen or Give Me Liberty.

On a lighter note, I like that one of the rules is “No anime.” :-)

Stating the obvious

[antonia-tiger.livejournal.com]

It's a book about a particular style of art. It's the style these people make their living at, so they're hardly likely to rock the boat.

Some people in their business know what real humans look like, and recognise the sort of exaggeration they are using. The good artists can draw realistic figures--Picasso could--and they know what they are doing.

These guys, they're teaching you how to draw a particular style, and they show little or no sign of knowing how it diverges from reality. There's no sign of an anchor. The little I recall of the older, still-extant. comicbook superheroes, they're drifting away from reality. Superman today is that bit less real, that bit less plausible as Clark Kent.

(Though, as Christopher Reeve demonstrated, a lot of that difference is in body language.)

And the attitudes built into thet style stink.

There's something pretty rotten about the scripting too.

I mean, Buffy is unreal, in a Hollywood-cute way, but the actress is still a human being; she's not average, but she's still real.

Re: Stating the obvious

[ratcreature]

It's a book about a particular style of art.

No, actually it's not. It's collection with contiributions in a variety of different styles, and only some suck like this. You know, I didn't buy that series (and yes, I bought several of the Wizard books) to rant about them. In other entries in my LJ I posted scans with chapters that cover topics in a really helpful way. And yes, superhero stuff does dominate, but it is not just about that style.

Also, I don't like writing off the superhero genre as a lost cause, because I am actually a superhero comic fan. I'd just like them better with less sexism.

a non-sarcastic thanks!

[hennalounge.livejournal.com]

Hi, I'm a "liberated" female (meaning I don't feel threatened by big boobs and unrealistic waist measurements), and was looking for exactly what you had posted. We're talking about fantasy here folks! If it's not your fantasy, go somewhere else. But the drawing tips were very helpful in my opinion. If I wanted to draw flat or saggy chests and thick waists I'd go to a community college figure drawing class. Thanks for the info. I found it helpful.

and one more thing

[hennalounge.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, exaggerated artwork has been around for millenia. Check out some of the temple sculptures of India - those ladies have serious bolt-ons for boobs. And Michelangelo's David is pretty ripped. So this is nothing new, are you people going to boycott the classics too?

Re: and one more thing

[mulato1.livejournal.com]

Hennalounge,
Damnit YOU ARE ON POINT!!! When you start with "liberated female" Notice the "Not threatened by big boobs" statement. That is the BEST comment i have read in a long time. It is all about CONFIDENCE. Those that are offended, are not so because its demeaning because its not. Its glorifing the sex and sexiness of the women form which is another issue. Its a celebration of the human form. If all the women were realistic or fat they'd be complaining about how they are always portrayed in a condesending way. Needless to say bitches and people with self issues will always have something to say as if they are always the victims.

To the ones offended:
Leave the art alone and stop feeling threatened by what you do not have or by what is exaggereted. It seems that the majority that have a problem with this art have self-esteem issues. (sacrcastic tone for you morons)Yeah im a sexist for being a realist. Go complain about south-park cartoon. I am not sexist in anyway. I believe in not being a pussy and complaining about everything and trying to destroy art because feminists or some weak women which say its sexist. Women are strong and sexy, and personally if you are weak and threatened by this, it may be a reason why you are alone or have a pussy-ass submissive mate.

[hopesmasher.livejournal.com]

Quit your bitchin' and get back in the kitchen.

[zeropointalpha.livejournal.com]

If I recall, posting scans from a book one normally has to purchase is a violation of copy-right law.

[radioblur.livejournal.com]

As an artist this was enormously helpful. Thanks.

Also, I think it's pretty funny that so very many people are getting worked up at how "bad" some of these parts are when the vast majority of them aren't even artists. Furthermore, most of them have livejournals they update frequently covered in sub-par comic book art--worse than most of the images presented here--and never see a woman anked except on their monitors. Oh the irony. <33

Hey

[kattokaruto.livejournal.com]

I found your site whilst looking up marvel information.
It's been very helpful and I added you as a friend.

:-)
Thank you!

-Lauren

Re: Hey

[ratcreature]

welcome, and thanks for reading and commenting. You should know though that I don't post all that frequently about comics at the moment, and am more of a DC than a Marvel fan (though kind of lost with the irongoing Crisis-That-Never-Ends). I really only read Daredevil and Amazing Spider-Man regularly among the Marvel titles. Well, and Astonishing X-Men, but that seems to come out only once every blue moon.

[mogumogu.livejournal.com]

It's an old post, but I felt the need to comment after reading the comments.

The funny thing is that the fat Scarlet Witch is actually sort of drawn in an appealing way. (if you ignore the cans and chicken leg). She'd be a pretty interesting character to have, I think.

I guess the whole point of the argument that some don't understand is, to summarize: We understand the conventions, and there's nothing wrong with a little fanservice. However, fanservice is a side helping to a greater main dish. When it comes to mainstream comics, the kind of comic considered the "regular" comic, the one trying to appeal to a wider audience, fanservice should be the cherry on top, not the (contorted) backbone of female characters and the only thing to draw people in. It makes a quick buck, but it takes away credibility. Do superheroes need credibility? Well, how many people would be proud to say they're fans of comics created for a target demographic of pubescent horny boys? Sounds like something one "should" outgrow. Think about how fast kids reject any association with their once-beloved Barney when they're older, never to return. I remember feeling such a violent need to disassociate, but I don't remember that being the case for Sesame Street (though, it's more saccharine now than when I was younger, so times may have changed).

And that's my big post that's too late for anyone to read.

[rurouniidoru.livejournal.com]

*applaud* Exactly. Thank you.

That is all.

[theartema.livejournal.com]

Jim Balent's style utterly confuses me. Why aren't her feet proportionate to the rest of her? The poor thing looks like she's going to topple right over. :/

[ratcreature]

Well, considering that there's a 90° angle bend in the wrong direction in the spine, I guess the feet are the least of her problems, balance wise...

[430-pm.livejournal.com]

Whoa, hello trolls.

Anyways, thanks for scanning these. The immense irony of putting Mystique in a sexy, sultry, sort-of-submissive pose and then saying that she has a great personality makes me laugh (and kind of want to cry).

[ratcreature]

Yeah, very true. I mean, if someone gets off on out of character Mystique porn that's fine, I have odd porn kinks too, I just wish it wouldn't be done in the comics that are supposed to be primarily action-adventure superhero tales and such. So even besides the whole misogyny issues, I think eye candy and such should be only added where it actually fits unless you do porn where it fits everywhere of course.

I even get annoyed by this when they do it with stuff that I *appreciate* in porn. I mean, e.g. I found it completely annoying when they put a dog collar on Flash in a splash panel when nowhere in the actual story does he wear one, also in another issue far more elaborate chains than there were in the actual story. It was some sort of gratuitous bondage pictures. I was totally WTF? despite finding Flash in chins kind of pretty. Of course I find it worse with things that visually annoy me in the first place.

[(Anonymous)]

Wait.... HUH?! You're telling me that those enormous, truck-sized, bulging, MASSIVE guys, are "realistic and believable"?! Er... have you been taking drugs recently, Mr. Sears? o.0

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for posting the scans. I love comic book and fantasy art.

Frozen??

[mulato1.livejournal.com]

Ratcreature no one gives a shit how many posts you "freeze" because of your dislikes of the topic and what you care to discuss. If you want to enforce then buy your own web space, until then, eat these comments. The arguable facts and opinions is what gave the original post the many replies and its interesting response. Who gives a fuck what you care to discuss. This is a public area despite of what you may think. People have different opinions about different things and in no way did i even take anything that was said to oppose my view personal. Nor do i believe those that opposed my views took anything i said personal. If they did then they are a big of a loser as yourself. Your false sense of power in these bullshit posts is as ineffective as your original cry or rant of what a so called horror it is to draw or view comic drawing such as this. In other words what im trying to say is.....who gives a shit....