White Collar inspired question

[ratcreature]

In the recent ep Diana claims that Neal's raw milk Pecorino cheese was illegal (Neal counters that it was a gift, not sold), which I found very strange. I know that there is more concern about risks of raw milk products in the US than elsewhere, but surely the US wouldn't outlaw all kinds of cheeses? What on earth would be sold as Parmesan cheese in the US for example (I mean if you want the non-ersatz kind, i.e. proper Parmigiano-Reggiano), if raw milk cheese was really illegal? Or Gruyère? Or any of the other common cheeses that need raw milk? It's not like raw milk is only used in obscure specialty cheeses foodie snobs seek out.

Comments

[kyriacarlisle]

At the moment, raw milk cheese is legal if it's aged over 60 days.

Neal *could*, I guess, have had a pecorino fresco - the 15-45 day aging period would make it young enough to raise FDA eyebrows.

(Oh. Here via network, btw.)

[ratcreature]

Well, at least that still leaves many cheeses legal. But how inconvenient. I'm now imagining black market deals to get some young Brie or Camembert...

[saraht]

There are, in fact, secret unpasteurized milk rings in New York, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was leading to secret cheese production.

[ratcreature]

...

Right. Once again the lessons of the prohibition didn't stick. Next, mafia controlled cows...

I suspect it would be safer if they just controlled the raw milk products above board rather than pushing it into secret milk rings.

[saraht]

No, because if pasteurization weren't the "floor," then the companies would be selling cheap unpasteurized milk to the poor, and there'd be dysentery like the world has never known. Unfortunately.

[bluemeridian]

I'm guessing the writers made a mistake, knowing that raw milk is usually illegal in the states (paranoid bastards) but not realizing what kyriacarlisle mentions. Probably someone one read/saw an article about it being a hotbed issue and threw it in the script.

[ratcreature]

I find this milk thing so bizarre. I mean, here raw milk is controlled more, but to outlaw it? Next thing they'd want to demand sterilized plastic food only, because after all people can die from unfortunate bacteria contaminations on all kinds of natural food (as the over forty dead from the recent e.coli outbreak here show)...

[bluemeridian]

The power of lobbyists. :) The National Dairy Council is a group of large U.S. dairy farmers. They have a huge influence in Washington (primarily in Congress) by way of numerous lobbyists and dollars to spend. It is very much in their interest to prevent the sale of raw milk. *sigh*

[lilacsigil]

Raw milk and raw milk cheese is illegal in Australia, as are many kinds of uncooked preserved meats. However, I live in a dairying area and there's raw milk "for cosmetic use only" sold in most of our shops, and several cheesemakers around here do make raw milk cheese - they just can't sell it. They trade it instead.

[ratcreature]

People would revolt if they tried that here. I mean, raw milk is somewhat of a niche product, but I don't think anyone would go for changing the taste of traditional, beloved cheeses, and some raw meat foods are very popular. For example Mettbrötchen, i.e. breakfast rolls with raw minced pork, are widely sold as snackfood, even by places like bakeries and train station kiosks that do not have a refrigerated display counter, so you can have that roll with the raw meat on it lying outside for a few hours, next to rolls with cheese or sausages. Happens in the summer too, and while it is not tropical here, temperatures easily reach the upper twenties, and sometimes the thirties. There is a rule though that you can only sell that ground pork the day it was produced but still. You'd think it was an invitation for food poisoning, but mostly people seem to be okay eating these things.

[lilacsigil]

Yes, we have a lot of German settlers in the Adelaide area, and they used to produce this kind of product but unfortunately after a toddler died in the early 90s it was all banned in a massive overreaction. (Adelaide can be over 30 for 60 days in a row and over 40 for 5 in a row, though, so it is a lot hotter there!) Australia has super-strict food and quarantine laws for everything, though, so it doesn't seem quite as draconian as it might in another country. Cheese producers are challenging the ban at the moment - there's no way we're going to get imported raw milk or meat products, but we might be able to make and sell our own again.

[tassosss.livejournal.com]

From brief googling and my own limited knowledge it looks like cheese made from unpasteurized milk has to be aged 60 days before it can be sold. Cheesemakers, including small farms, have to get permits to produce cheeses from raw milk. Otherwise, I think a lot of the big commercial stuff is made with pasteurized.

[ratcreature]

Here there is much pasteurized cheese as well, and raw milk is controlled more, but it's not restricted except that it has to be labelled. At least with the 60 days much cheese would be still legal, but I now image covert black market transactions by Americans in search of a real Camembert or a young Brie...

[tassosss.livejournal.com]

I now image covert black market transactions by Americans in search of a real Camembert or a young Brie...

I don't think you're far off the mark! There are huge groups here who lobby for "free" cheese and the relaxing of restrictions, and of course the raw milk thing is huge right now too.

[madripoor-rose.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure myself, and I live here, heh. But sadly, for a lot of us Parmesan comes in a green plastic can from Kraft, and anything other than cheddar, swiss and american singles for grilled cheese sandwiches count as obscure.

[ratcreature]

Due to money constraints I mostly buy the cheap supermarket cheese myself rather than any gourmet special cheeses, so it's not like I can cast stones. But the variety even on the cheapish end is slightly greater, like today I got a package of Swiss Gruyère made from raw milk in said discount supermarket. (It has to be labelled here in the ingredients so people with weak immune system can avoid raw milk if they prefer to be careful.)

[madripoor-rose.livejournal.com]

I don't think I even heard of Gruyere until I was fourteen or fifteen, in a book. They might have it in the bigger supermarkets now, haven't looked since cheese is off my diet anyway.

[jacquez.livejournal.com]

Depends where you are, but any halfway decent supermarket in any medium-sized US city should have an extensive cheese department, probably containing at least a few raw-milk cheeses. I live in Pittsburgh, PA, and even the discount supermarkets have Colby jack, mozzarella, and a few other options (in addition to cheddar, Swiss, and the ubiquitous Kraft singles and Velveeta).

Back to the original question...pecorino in the US would almost always be sold aged (you can get "young" pecorino, but it is less common -- for me to get it, I have to go to the giant Italian speciality cheese counter in the market district and can't be sure they'll have it, while regular/aged pecorino I can reliably get, though not in many shops). So I find the statement from WC dubious at best, unless there's some internal evidence that the cheese was young.

[ratcreature]

Here the discount supermarkets almost never sell the proper mozzarella made from buffalo milk, only the pseudo kind from cow's milk. (On the bright side, the boring cow mozzarella sold here is usually not Italian and thus not entangled with the Camorra, who caused that bacteria scandal a few years back because they threatened vets, falsified hygiene tests and hid sick buffalo and such, not to mention runs these illegal waste dumps that contaminate the food production with dioxins. I mean, I still buy Italian cheese, but I'd feel more reassured if it wasn't some mafia running the food production.)

[teneagles.livejournal.com]

In New York, raw milk itself is tightly regulated, sold only on a small number of licensed farms, and raw milk products are entirely banned. People who want raw milk products can cross the border into Connecticut, but can't bring it back to New York; it's a federal crime to transport raw milk across state lines.

Raw milk cheeses are legal in every state, under federal law, provided it's been aged at least sixty days.

[ratcreature]

Next thing you know, you'll have mafia controlled cows. Italians love their cheeses after all, many from raw milk. LOL (Or worse, like that Casu Marzu that was outlawed by EU regulations for a little while because maggots in food were considered blanket unsafe, but Sardinians wanted to keep it, so now they have to use sterile flies that never came into contact with garbage to lay the eggs, and still can get their cheese with living fly maggots under the traditional food exceptions to the EU hygiene rules...)