as if patterns weren't incomprehensible enough

[ratcreature]

It is really annoying that the English terms for basic crochet stitches mean different things depending on which country the pattern is from. Who came up with this nonsense? At least pick different words. Having two different things both called "double crochet" is annoying.

It doesn't help that both count different from the German terms. Like what the US calls "double crochet" is apparently a "treble crochet" in UK terms whereas in German that is called just "Stäbchen", so no number at all. And tbh I find it somewhat irritating that something is called "half double crochet" ("halbes Stäbchen" in German). I mean, I realize those don't exactly work like numbers, but I can't help but feel that these ought to cancel each other and just leave you with a "crochet".

Comments

[drklock]

Aggravating, yes. But, thanks for the giggle.

Half double. *snorts*

[neotoma]

Crochet terms are just a mess -- I great prefer having charts as well as directions, but it is rare to see charts in crochet patterns compared to knitting patterns.

[ratcreature]

I have only really basic crochet knowledge, like I learned some basic stitches as a kid, made the obligatory potholders, but as an adult I've only made a couple of amigurumi toys and I think a hat at some point, and only read basic instructions in German. But my library has these e-book versions of some Australian crochet magazine, so I took a look, and in one there was a pattern for a simple neck loop that looked kind of nice, needed only one skein of wool of a weight that I already have and didn't look that finicky, so I thought, why not. And then I tried to decipher what the description meant.

[ratcreature]

I have no idea how the terminology ended up in this state, but something went horribly wrong.

[sealie]

my knowledge of german is beyond poor (for which I can only apologise and point to the socio-politics of the UK) so I'm probably getting things out of order....

I have to say that I adore that crochet is Stäbchen

[ratcreature]

I have to admit that I like the German terms much better than either English ones, and I don't think it's just because I learned them first.

It starts with German not calling the thread looping with itself of crochet or knitting the same as pulling a thread through fabric as in sewing or embroidery. A crochet or knitting stitch is a "Masche" in German, whereas in sewing it's a "Stich" (i.e. the same base word as in English). Then the single crochet (the one for dome season called double in UK) is called "feste Masche" or "firm stitch" in contrast to the chain ones which are called "Luftmasche" or "air stitch" in German. And then you have the Stäbchen and "halbes Stäbchen".

Quite charmingly outside of crafts "Masche" also means a clever way of pulling something off, frequently a con or such, like a con method is a "Betrugsmasche".

[sealie]

the powers of google (although to be more accurate duckduckgo) translated crochet to Häkeln, but know translators so I took that with a pinch of salt.

I have been sort of crocheting for a little while--I finally after aeons cracked the melding of fingers and yarn--but the written patterns are borderline incomprehensible. Luckily, lots of people put handy videos on line, which renders both the difficulties with the written patterns and the need to be multilingual moot!

[ratcreature]

The written patterns certainly make things more confusing than the actual movements turn out to be. But I think that's in part because written instructions for complex movements are hard and it's much easier to learn these by watching. You see the same with exercise descriptions. And then with the spatial assembly of different stitches doing a linear text on it is also hard, like following a dot matrix printer with fading ink and visualizing the sentence that would have emerged.

And in this case the translator is correct! It is häkeln (also the verb, just as in English) because you do it with a hook that is a "Haken" in German. So we just do "hooking" when we crochet, heh. (There is no association with prostitution in German, presumably because the expression "to hook somebody on something" doesn't exist.)

Knitting is "Stricken" which shares the root with "Strick" or rope. Making actual ropes is "seilen" in German, from a different German word for rope, "Seil". I'm actually not sure why German has two (not counting extra terms for thick ropes on ships and such which are Taue or Trosse, but English has a different word hawser there too), but it's context dependent whether you say Strick or Seil, like the jumping ropes for kids are Seile, but ropes to hang people or to tie them up are Stricke. And of course knitting is done with much thinner strings, which aren't ropes, but that's word roots doing their shifting I guess.