my brain hurts

[ratcreature]

So, the events in that fateful night when Dick Grayson's parents die, and young Tim Drake watches, what do you think happened wrt Batman's appearance on the scene? In the scenario that Tim tells to explain how he made the connection between Dick Grayson and Robin, the two key pieces are the quadruple somersault and Tim witnessing Batman swoop down into the ring and examine the ropes. That's how it happens in Year Three (1989), how Tim tells it to Dick in A Lonely Place of Dying (1989). In all later versions, I've found, as well as in the Secret Origins #13 (1987) that was published earlier, Batman doesn't swoop into the arena in full spotlight, but investigates later. In Robin #0 (1994) in the brief flashback panel we only see Bruce Wayne at the circus, and Dick says that he didn't even believe in Batman until he was shown the cave, though we can probably disregard that as incongruent with all other versions. In Robin Annual #4 (1995) Batman first runs into Dick Grayson later the same night, outside, when he investigates and Dick eavesdrops. In Dark Victory (2000) it's not impossible that Dick runs into Batman later that night, as we don't see those events, but their first conversation seems to take place after Bruce Wayne took Dick in, but anyway only Bruce Wayne is shown in the scene of the Graysons death as onlooker. In LotDK #100 (1997) we see Bruce Wayne more or less discreetly remove evidence from the scene without any disguise, besides feigning clumsiness, and change into the Batman costume in his car, and encounter Dick later that night during the investigation.

Besides all the other differences (like whether Zucco dies from an heart attack, whether the ringmaster is involved and eaten by lions, etc etc), the thing with whether or not Batman appeared in the circus arena stands out, because it's central to Tim's explanation how he discovers Robin's identity. OTOH it makes more sense that Batman doesn't swoop into the arena with several hundred onlookers just to take a look at the rope and possibly comfort Dick.

So -- what's your vote for the most likely scenario? Was Batman in the limelight that night or not?

Comments

[thete1.livejournal.com]

Gah, you're right, I'd never really thought about how the different versions frag Tim's origins. And so my immediate fanwank:

Batman wasn't in the spotlight. Baby Timmy focuses on Dick. The Graysons' fall, Dick's grief. Enter the lifetime of quiet, purposeful, Dick-stalking. Not *too* long after Dick becomes Robin (and thus not too far into Tim's obsessive childhood), he sees the news footage with Robin doing the quadruple somersault, makes the connection, and rewrites his memories accordingly.

Okay, so the canon is still screwed up, but I think that kind of makes sense...?

[ratcreature]

I guess plausibility depends on how unique is that quadruple somersault performed by a kid that it's enough for making the connection (granting the possibility that a nine year old Tim would be obsessed enough to find out all about acrobatics, like other kids are obsessed with dinosaur facts or something). I mean, on a meta-textual level it's fairly clear that they introduced the Batman swooping down stuff in the 1989 version to make Tim's origin story more plausible, and then promptly forgot about it again.

[thete1.livejournal.com]

*nod nod nod*

And, well, now we're getting into the part of the shifting origin stuff that messes with MY mind -- the ages. So Timmy was... 9? Or was he 7? Or 3?

And how old is Dick again?

And... *stops thinking about it*

[ratcreature]

*sigh* Ages-- a problem in itself. Personally I think Dick is about eleven when his parents fall to his death. Some time passes between his parents' death and his debut as Robin, making him twelve when he debuts. We know he stayed Robin for six years, so at the time he's shot by the Joker and the breakup happens he's eighteen, which fits with him leaving for college for a semester and then dropping out shortly before. A few months pass between him quitting as Robin and becoming Nightwing, that is reconcilable with the canon that he's nineteen when he adopts that identity.

I think it's said somewhere that Tim is thirteen the when A Lonely Place of Dying happens, and he says he was nine when he watches the footage of Batman and Robin. Between Dick's parents' death and Jason becoming Robin lie about eight years, maybe a little less, but there are the seven years until he quits, then the time it takes for Batman to meet and train Jason, which is at least six months. Then Jason stays Robin for about a year (?) or so, and Batman is solo for a little while after, so Tim has to be under five when he's at the circus, possibly even younger.

[cereta.livejournal.com]

In my mind, Batman was there, but not in the limelight. That said, I've been heavily influenced by the cartoon version with regards to this story ;).

[ratcreature]

I haven't watched the cartoon version yet, but in most comic versions Batman is there later. And it makes more sense that he doesn't swoop into the arena, it's just that then Tim connecting Batman and Robin to their alter egos hinges solely on the somersault.